*NO* Seiken Densetsu 3 'The Forbidden Path' *RESUB*

Original Decision: http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=18166

Supercussionist

Andrew Garma

Ninfrk6590@yahoo.com

24920

Seiken Densetsu 3

Few Paths Forbidden

Hiroki Kikuta is the original composer of the song. Super NES. Japan only game. Sequel to my favorite rpg game, secret of mana.

Description on the mix:

Well, in general, it kinda sounds like animusic music. real drums + synth. although, that wasnt the original intention of the mix. i've always wanted to remix this song, and make it faster, better, and fun to listen to...and make. but anyway, the drums are the main feature in the song.

I made this song with garage band. now, i know that everyone says "the samples suck in there" but i have no money to get a better software. the original arrangement was made on finale. i midi transferred it to garage band and tweaked it up from there. ive done the best i could with garage band to make this piece.

Now, to go into the song. it starts off with hints of the main melody played throught the whole song...then something new ive added from the first submission. the drums. ive changed it from straight sixteenths to a drum solo, because one drum solo didnt feel enough... anyway, the first phrase is the basic melody, and rhythm(except the drums) which was in the original piece. when it repeats, a new bass line that ive fused with the background marimba of the original kicks in, but it keeps that low D which lands on the upbeat, just to give it that boom. when the second phrase kicks in, the bass line, made entirely by me. comes in. later, when the bass and drums do their thing, hints of the next synth leads come in and trade off. when the 3rd phrase comes in(which used to be just a repeat of the first phrase in the original submission), a new melody comes in with feint sounds of the original melody. this part is still a trade off between the synths.

when the phrase repeats, ive added long notes as a background and some synth hits too. when the fourth phrase comes in, i hint meridian dance as the main melody. when the drum solo kicks in, the bass repeats the same line. as i said in my previous submission, chris botti had his bass player playing the same thing while the drums soloed. after the solo, i hint the pure land song with a different rhythm and i used the main melody as the counter melody. after that, a different rhythm of the melody comes backed by an upbeat hi hat opener with octave and double octave bass jumps. finally, for the climax, the drums build up while the bass does octave chromatic jumps into a delayed fill, ending with the main bass line, and a panned out echo synth. when it repeats, the long notes ive put in the fourth phrase are put in but into a different rhythm. the ending is quick and cut instead of fading.

i dont know if i went too in depth. but thank you in advance.

I don't have the last version anymore, but I think most of the issues with the last version still apply. There's still a lot of empty space in the song, and the drums could be more upfront, maybe the bass too. It can be tough to get those volume/reverb levels right sometimes, but I think this needs more attention there. Try comparing your song to a similar song that has the levels right. The arrangement still seems conservative in its use of the original. All the melodic parts from the original that you've used are unchanged, and the structure is the same for those sections as well. You mentioned that you tweaked the marimba part from the original, but the bass is so buried in this, I didn't really hear it. Maybe if that got brought out more, I'd find the kinds of melodic alterations I'm looking for.

Don't get discouraged, these are really the only things holding your song back. I think both your arrangement and production are close to our standards, but not quite there yet. Another pass could put you over the top.

NO (resubmit)

Pretty good. Personally I don't think that there's any glaring emptiness. There's a clarity here, even when there's a lot going on in the soundscape; nice balance. That percussion solo is sick and the syncopation in the end section is pretty wild. Nice work.

I like it. YES

I know one of the issues last time was the buried melody. Now I think it's a bit too upfront at times because of the weak drums. I never complained about the level of the drums before, I'm generally in favor of louder drums. You're balancing between perfect and needs-some-work here so it's not a major issue but if this doesn't pass you could push the drums up another notch and add a bit more presence to the bass.

The drum sequencing sounds better. I don't know if it has been changed at all but I don't have that many issues with it now. Perhaps during the solo bass+drums part some of the fills sound unnatural, especially the faster ones and those times the drummer has one extra arm

The arrangement is still fairly close to the source but I found some interesting counter melodies on the left side during the last part and the improved production does help. All the transitions sounds good. In general there isn't much to complain about except it's a bit close to the source.

Overall, this is a tough call imo but I think this is over the bar. The arrangment is interesting enough with the syncopation and drum sequencing, the production is a bit lacking but it's not enough to keep it from passing. Could've been improved but I think I feel comfortable passing this.

YES(borderline)

Intro is a bit weird. Those drum fills are a bit epic considering they didn't actually break into a beat straight away. I like most of the synth sounds, they're quite 80s, as is the amount of reverb. The bass is definitely there palp, my brand new studio quality headphones deem it so.

Okay so, there was that empty bit from 2:49 to 3: 11 that felt like it was a build up to something, as if a million instruments were about to melt my face off, but it was just drums, and the bass which didn't get any louder. And the same sparseness continued until we finally got some more synth action at 3:55. So I count a full minute where just... nothing is really happening musically. I get the impression from your name that you like drum solos and fills, but there needs to be something resembling the musical content of the source for most of the mix, and a whole minute of just bass isn't good. Add some more during that section or this just won't fly, and I don't think that this is a conditional problem, imo. The rest of the mix is okay, nearing borderline, but passable. Fill up that space and you should be okay, but for now:

NO resub plz

This reminds me of old-school OCReMixes for some reason, perhaps due to the highly synthetic nature of most of the sounds. The arrangement is pretty cool overall, treating the source in a fairly creative way while integrating some nice original material as well. I just have two issues. One is the intro, with the high-pitched synth and drum fill leading into more parts. Considering the 'cheap' quality of the drum samples it just sounds kind of cheesy. Also, the break starting at 2:48 through 3:53 was awkward. A drum/bass break doesn't work unless you have really high quality samples or the sequencing is absolutely amazing (or both.) Unfortunately, while I heard what you were trying to do here, it just didn't sound so good in the end - overly sparse, with not enough energy to hold the attention of the listener.

The drum samples in general could be improved if at all possible. You can hear a lot of repeating samples, and the tone of each hit is basically exactly the same. Perhaps some more acoustic instruments could be used to balance out the highly electronic textures, too. A lot of the sounds are very basic subtractive synths - no FM or additive sounds to provide some bright contrast to all the squares and saws. In short, I think the production could have used more variety. Even additional synth processing would have helped, such as filter sweeps, PWM and vibrato.

This one just isn't quite there yet, IMO. The weird intro and long break section combined with a few lo-fi/cheap sounds puts this one a bit below our bar. Keep at it.

NO, resubmit

Didn't really have a problem with emptiness, the bass could be a bit more prominent, though. The drum writing is good, but as zirc said, the sequencing could be better: mixed velocities, switching up samples, etc. Arrangement is pretty conservative with the melody, but the original and additional writing fit in great and there is some variety in the beginning and end.

I'm leaning toward yes. The arrangement could be a bit more adventurous, and the production could be a bit better, but what you have here works.

YES

Hmm. Not a bad sub, but as Andy mentioned, it does sound a little too circa-2001-ish.

I thought the lead synths were aight, but too monotonous and unchanging for the most part--take 1:05 for example. I realize it's an electronic piece, but the synth wasn't particularly expressive or compelling. It doesn't sound bad, but it manages to sound a hair bland. The acoustic drums under electronic instrumentation seemed especially rigid IMO. The drums in and of themselves don't sound bad--I liked the sound of the snare especially, but perhaps they could have been compressed--warmed up a little more and individual note velocities tweaked here and there to make 'em not sound so robotic. I guess that's the problem when juxtaposing acoustic and electronic elements together--the shortcomings tend to be a little exposed.

I liked the initial soundscape at 4:15, and the bassline just before, but all those double notes etc got rather jumbled up in each other rather quickly.

Ultimately I'm cool either way this gets voted, but I'm just feeling like it's a little lacking in the execution. Production needs some work, and the sequencing is rigid to the point that it detracted from my ability to just groove with the song.

Keep at it, it's obviously fairly close (otherwise, you wouldn't have 3 YES votes)

NO

The mixing could use a little work, though I don't think the drum placement is anything worth rejecting the submission for. The bass is there, but it could use a bit more presence. Too bottom heavy.

I don't have a problem with open space, but problems arise when you're using samples because empty space exposes the artificiality of your instruments.

One other problem I have is that the lead synths are kind of washy. They aren't very well separated either by panning or spectrally, so when those synths come in, suddenly the mix sounds really messy.

I think this submission would be easy to fix.

NO

http://snesmusic.org/v2/download.php?spcNow=sd3 - "Few Paths Forbidden" (sd3-2-04.spc)

The mixing could use a little work, though I don't think the drum placement is anything worth rejecting the submission for. The bass is there, but it could use a bit more presence. Too bottom heavy.

I don't have a problem with open space, but problems arise when you're using samples because empty space exposes the artificiality of your instruments.

One other problem I have is that the lead synths are kind of washy. They aren't very well separated either by panning or spectrally, so when those synths come in, suddenly the mix sounds really messy.

I think this submission would be easy to fix.

Jesse summed it up well here, so re-read everything he said. The low-end could use some more presence, and you also need to properly pad the track out and not leave the samples sounding so thin. I had no problem with the drum placement, though the timing was mechanical in places, and note intensities sounding during the steady patterns didn't help. The drum solo was handled a bit better this time, but the track is generally too spartan-sounding with the way these samples are used. The best parts were the fuller sections by a long shot, particularly the choruses when the synth pad sounded awesome. The only part I disagreed with was regarding clutter in some areas. Those sounded fine; the sparse parts were the ones holding this back.

Sorry for how long this vote took, Andrew, but when stuff's more on the fence, that's the complete opposite of the sweet spot when it comes to the panel voting on it. Nonetheless, Jesse right in that this isn't far from the mark.

NO