Enhancing MIDI

[TrueLugia121]

Sorry i'm not too sure if this can be done or if you'e guys done this before of something but does anyone know the exact procedure towards digitally enhancing MIDI?

i don't know the exact meaning of Enhancing MIDI but i'm sure there might be ways ofdoing this.

does anone here know the ways or have an address to a guide that may have some information as regards to how this is done?

[OverCoat]

SoundFonts

[Yoozer]

Sorry i'm not too sure if this can be done or if you'e guys done this before of something but does anyone know the exact procedure towards digitally enhancing MIDI?

You don't enhance MIDI - you no longer use the default General MIDI sounds (samples) on your soundcard (also called "wavetable").

i don't know the exact meaning of Enhancing MIDI but i'm sure there might be ways ofdoing this.

does anone here know the ways or have an address to a guide that may have some information as regards to how this is done?

Get yourself Reason or FL Studio, throw in some nice VSTs in FL Studio or Refill packs in Reason and you're done.

MIDI is to sound as a sheet with score is to tape. One describes what you should play without caring who is playing it; the other describes exactly what was played but does not explain to you how it was done. MIDI does not "sound like crap"; your soundcard's default wavetable synthesizer does. Therefore, you don't have to enhance MIDI.

[OverCoat]

You don't enhance MIDI

GS?

[TrueLugia121]

someone else told me that shea was able to record some Yamaha XG MIDI in order to sound diferent that the originl MIDI is this true?

[JamesXIIC]

Yamaha XG is an improved and increased soundset of the GM (General MIDI) and basically sounds a lot better than a cheap soundcard's wavetable. Modern-ish Yamaha keyboards use XG which is now a Yamaha standard and so happens to be backwards compatible with GM.

Today is probably comparable to Quicktime's DSL Music Device that comes standard with Quicktime to play MIDI files or Microsoft's supplied software wavetable synth in terms of quality.

However, none of the above or the XG set sound anywhere near as decent as proper commerical VSTs be they samplers, romplers or synths. Even some free ones sound much better.

Get FL Studio is my recommendation, which can understand MIDI too. The mid-end version is very cheap and still plenty powerful.

Remember though - MIDI is just a language. It doesn't PRODUCE the sounds in realtime nor is it pre-recorded audio - it gives instructions for external or interal MIDI compatible devices which create the sounds.

As mentioned before it's soft of like a sheet of manuscript for the computer to understand.

[Yoozer]

You don't enhance MIDI

GS?

GS is an extended GM standard, just like XG is. The MIDI signals at the bottom are still standard.

Enhanced MIDI would be something like OSC, or HD-MIDI.
http://www.midi.org/newsviews/hdmidipr2.shtml
http://www.cnmat.berkeley.edu/OpenSoundControl/

someone else told me that shea was able to record some Yamaha XG MIDI in order to sound diferent that the originl MIDI is this true?

Balderdash; it's an old wives' tale and in order to do this he had to sacrifice his firstborn.

No, I'm kidding. You don't record the MIDI, you record what comes out of the sound outputs of the XG device. The XG device can be anything; a synthesizer, a soundcard, a module, as long as they contain the sample set for XG.

http://www.smellymonkey.com/qy70/ < that thing's got the XG soundset. There should also be an XG softsynth, but count on it that any dedicated software sampler with a good sample set will blow it away.

[JamesXIIC]

Enhanced MIDI would be something like OSC, or HD-MIDI.

What about mLAN? Is that not set to replace MIDI eventually? I don't know much about it myself.

[Yoozer]

Enhanced MIDI would be something like OSC, or HD-MIDI.

What about mLAN? Is that not set to replace MIDI eventually? I don't know much about it myself.

mLAN is regular MIDI + audio, bidirectional, on a single cable.

[TrueLugia121]

so how can you tell the difference between the different MIDI formats?

[Compyfox]

Nuff said, there is none.

There is only:
MIDI 0 and MIDI 1

The main difference is only one thing:
MIDI 0 starts with Channel 0 up to channel 15 per MIDI bus.
MIDI 1 starts with Channel 1 up to channel 16 per MIDI bus.


You can't enhance MIDI. Sometimes it's not even fully fledged out. That HD-MIDI/XG/OSC thing is crap - at least at the moment. I'd personally like to have a better "dithering" (resolution from 0-256 rather than 0-127, then again there's SYS-EX which runs on a HEX basis) but in times where music is compressed to it's maximum, it's so totally useless.


BTW:
You all say "there is no MIDI", "MIDI sounds" or even MIDI is crap.

A couple of things to finally set clear:
- MIDI is a controlling language to "remote control" synthesizers, several parameters, program changes, FX settings and the like.

- MIDI is built into everything if you work with instruments. That counts to hardware synths/sampler, as it does count to software synths/sampler. Even if you say "that isn't controlled by MIDI", it sure is in the background. Or do you think every sequencer invents the wheel anew. If so, no 3rd Party VST Plugins/VSTi would work with them!

- Still questions about MIDI:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDI


To the XG Software-Synth:
I have to dissapoint you. There were once two Software synths. One called S-YXG50 and one S-YXG100. They differed in terms of patches included, but were basicly software rebuilts from their hardware equivalents: DB50XG Wavetable/MU-15 and the MU-100.

Those synthesizers were DISCONTINUED. They were once standalone synths running in the background to "brighten up" MIDI files that were once standard in videogames before lossy formats like mp3/ogg/AC3 took over.

You can still find the S-YXG100 (if I'm not mistaken) on the PC version of Final Fantasy 7 however. So if you got a copy of that game, you're lucky. Keep in mind though that this is NOT A VSTi. Chances are that you need a loopback device like "Hubi's MIDI Loopback" to use them in your sequencer.


And whoever says that XG sounds crap. I started with the DB50XG Wavetable on a Creative 16bit audiocard, later I got it's "external form", the MU-15 (didn't have the money for the MU-100). Those XG synths were the flagships of Yamaha till they released the Motif series. I still appreciate that oldschool sound once in a while. What made them infamous though were the controlling possibilities. Without 3rd Party tools (which are still available for a couple of bucks) you had massive problems to tickle out everything out of these XG modules. But for bread and butter sounds they were fairly okay.

I still use my XG synth from time to time for a couple of productions, even though I'm spoiled with my Kurzweil and tons of (free) software synths by myself.


Regarding mLAN:
mLAN was only a logical step, invented by Yamaha btw. I sure hope that Muse Research with their UniWire technology and Yamaha with mLAN will revolutionize the music technology in terms of connections.

Imagine this:
Working on a purely digital base, no need for tons of cables anymore. Neither for audio (with multiple in/out, digital or analog) nor for MIDI (no MIDI switches anymore either). Just one GigaBit LAN network card, a LAN switch with the proper speed and devices that support those systems.

Result:
- Less cables
- Total control of Hardware (special VSTi GUI's for example)
- Total control of Software (Faders, Automation, Recording)
- Noiseless arrangements (due to the pure digital data transport)
- no CPU power blown (some modules could work as "PowerCore" systems with hardware acceleration)

But this is a totally different issue.

[TrueLugia121]

so they work differently is that correct?

[Compyfox]

If we still talk about MIDI 0 and MIDI 1, only in terms of channel settings and mixdowns. If I can still remember, MIDI 0 files were mixed down into one channel (and you had to "de-mix" or "extract" them), while MIDI 1 files were already split. Or the other way around. Long ago that I created *.mid files.

Else everything else is the same.


If we talk about MIDI files with XG settings however, this is a bit different.
Here a couple of SYS-EX codes are involved to access the XG banks, or GS banks, or whatever special banks your synthesizer can use. GM for example is limited to 1 Bank and 128 programs (0-127, sometimes 1-128, depending on the synth). To store more sounds however, and to enhance the sound spectrum of the synth, the synthesizer simply uses additional banks with another 128 programs. This way you have access to way more instruments. The bank and program limit were a thing from the past however. Chips couldn't store that much and it's an exponential of 16 (like with computers).


This still is not "enhanced" MIDI, but more like "different possibilties of access". The system still remains the same. And as you can see... MIDI won't die that soon or will be enhanced. Depending on the synthesizer and it's control/modulation possibilites, chances are that you barely even use everything that MIDI has to offer.


That also applies to upgraded connection systems (mLAN, UniWire). Even though it looks enhanced, it still uses the same old MIDI protocol for controlling synthesizers and effects. Why? MIDI still only uses a couple of bits in terms of data for controlling. If you'd enhance MIDI, you'd also make the information transfer bigger. And why change something that's already efficient and works for 20+years now with barely any latency?

[JamesXIIC]

Wow, I learned a lot. mLAN sounds pretty cool indeed.

As for XG, it's not bad - just dated that's all. There are a lot of free synths out there for free (VST) that have a better sonic range and allow you to have more control but XG keyboards weren't synthesisers so that makes perfect sense.

It's definitely a good starting point for someone getting to grips with MIDI or remixing. And let's face it, Yamaha's budget keyboards are probably the best from what I've seen.

[Compyfox]

XG keyboards "are" synthesizers. Just see it as "upgraded sounsprectrum".

Like I said:
GM - 1 Bank, 128 Programs
XG - up to 128banks, up to 16384 Programs

Theoretically of couse (my MU-15 has only like 650 programs or so). Didn't see any synthesizer so far (neither hard, nor software) that used that to it's full extend.

[Compyfox]

Addage to the XG software synthesizers:
I digged out my old copy of FF7 (PC) version. Looks like my memories were too dusted. On the installation disc (4CD Version) is not the S-YXG100 but the S-YXG70 which combines the S-YXG20 (XGlite mode) and S-YXG50 (XG mode) into one.

So there were in fact 4 versions of that software synthesizer. Unfortunately (like already mentioned) this thing is discontinued and Yamaha erased every trace of information about it.

[Spc1st]

Try using instruments and controllers ways they are probably not "meant" to be used, and you can really create some neat textures. For example, I am always amazed by MaliceX's experimentalish GM pieces (this one (http://omidia.net/contests/ohc/ohc15/ohc15_timbre_crunch_(MaliceX).mid), for example) - if I didn't see it playing from the MSGS sequencer, I'd mostly likely thought a lot of the FX are done from Audio. Crazy cool stuff, really. So yeh, don't take MIDI for granted.

[Drack]

Once you enhance MIDI it is no longer MIDI.

[Frederic D. Petitpas]

In fact, let's say you want to enhance midi piano.
To get the piano like a super concerto piano..
Well you record it to wav (use winamp 2.71 and search the procedure on google.ca)
Then you take an editing program like cakewalk or sonic... then you make whatever you want.. distorsion, reverb etc... but then you need experimentation.. but if you like it, you'll find tricks and stuffs..
For DRUMS lets say, convert your midi to midi0 set, with cakewalk, and passe it through a drum machine, lets say digitech, and you mix down on you computer..
I hope it will answer 1 or 2 things in your head
see ya dudes :twisted:

[TrueLugia121]

yeah but for the most part generally sequencing MIDI's hard work for most people that right?

also what i don't get is does converting MIDI to WAV actuallly keep the sound from the original MIDI but in WAV format?

[Frederic D. Petitpas]

yeah but for the most part generally sequencing MIDI's hard work for most people that right?

also what i don't get is does converting MIDI to WAV actuallly keep the sound from the original MIDI but in WAV format?

Exactly, it keeps the same sound, but you get it in a big 30 mb .wav (lol) and it keeps the pans and volumes, fades, jame in.. all you've done on the midi

you have to use Winamp 2.71 for that.. it has the "Write output wav file" option
Just search these words on google.com to have all the details :wink:

[Yoozer]

yeah but for the most part generally sequencing MIDI's hard work for most people that right?
Err, no? Making the default GM set sound good on a crappy onboard soundcard with a cheap wavetable synth - that's hard :). You don't have compression or equalization. You should take into account that there's no reverb, chorus or delay. If it's really bad, you only have the default "rock" drum kit to your command.

Any keyboard or synthesizer with a GM set and a sequencer already allows you to do it and to listen to the results.


also what i don't get is does converting MIDI to WAV actuallly keep the sound from the original MIDI but in WAV format?
You don't really "convert" - you render. The sound that would normally go to your speakers is caught just a moment earlier and written to a .wav file.

Remember : MIDI is not sound. The sound comes from the synthesizer in your soundcard.


you have to use Winamp 2.71 for that.. it has the "Write output wav file" option

Actually, any Winamp version will do, as long as you have the "write to disk" plugin for it... 2.71 is pretty antique ;).

[suzumebachi]

In fact, let's say you want to enhance midi piano.
To get the piano like a super concerto piano..
Well you record it to wav (use winamp 2.71 and search the procedure on google.ca)
Then you take an editing program like cakewalk or sonic... then you make whatever you want.. distorsion, reverb etc... but then you need experimentation.. but if you like it, you'll find tricks and stuffs..

i seriously recommend one does not attempt this as a way to "enhance" MIDI. all you're doing this way is slightly improving the already shitty sound of your GM wavetable. a much better method would be to import the midi data into your favorite sequencer and run it through a sampler or synth.

also what i don't get is does converting MIDI to WAV actuallly keep the sound from the original MIDI but in WAV format?

I think one thing you're failing to understand is that MIDI itself has no sound. The sound you hear when you play it back comes from either your soundcard's GM wavetable, or a software emulated one (ie Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth).

[Frederic D. Petitpas]

Suzumebachi said:
(i seriously recommend one does not attempt this as a way to "enhance" MIDI. all you're doing this way is slightly improving the already shitty sound of your GM wavetable. a much better method would be to import the midi data into your favorite sequencer and run it through a sampler or synth.)

Of course this is, but for e.g. people without a lot of money to buy progs and hardware my suggestion was about. The midi itself sounds crappy .mid lol (some of us only have that) but to importe in a sequencer, what are the programs you suggest ? thanks. another e.g. is Orchestra Strings; in my songs, I would need them to sound real, the arrangements are but the sound of them is not.

[suzumebachi]

FLStudio is a good place to start. You can use Reason, however I prefer FLStudio for it's sheer expandability.

Or if you already have Cakewalk (hopefully a version that supports VSTi) you can import your midi data and use it to control a sampler module (such as sfz (http://www.kvraudio.com/get/769.html)- a free and very good soundfont sampler) loaded up with the samples you want.

Let's have an example: So you want better sounding strings? First, lets find some decent string samples. preferably in soundfont (SF2) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soundfont) format, which is currently the most common free sample format available on the net.

http://hammersound.net/cgi-bin/soundlink.pl - The soundfonts here aren't amazing, but it's a good place to start nonetheless.
http://www.sf2midi.com/ - Shit tons of soundfonts here, but you have to register.
I also recommend checking out the sample request thread (http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=21071) here, as well as the samples (http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=42) forums over at KVR.

So strings it is you want, eh?
http://www.sf2midi.com/index.php?page=sdet&id=7109 - This is a collection of orchestral samples. the quality isn't anywhere near professional, but you'll at least have somewhere to start. you can probably find some better free ones out there, but to get anything passable as an actual orchestra, you'll have to cough up some $$$.

Now that you've got your samples, it's time to set up the sampler. If you haven't already, go download sfz (http://www.kvraudio.com/get/769.html). I'm not familiar with Cakewalk at all, so it'll be up to you to learn how to set up VSTi. From there it's just a matter of importing your midi and routing it through the VSTi.

Edit: Upon further research it seems that all Cakewalk versions (perhaps with the exception of SONAR 5) require you to purchase Cakewalk's DX to VST adapter in order to use VST effects and instruments. This is extreme homosexual spectacular bullshit mark two special edition. Basically, ignore everything I have said about Cakewalk up to this point. Instead I recommend getting FLStudio (http://www.flstudio.com/), Reason (http://www.propellerheads.se/), or Cubase (http://www.steinberg.net/). Hell, even ModPlug Tracker (http://www.modplug.com/) has VSTi support and it's FREE (not sure if you can import midi or not-- you can export it however). I don't know what the fuck Cakewalk's problem is, but as far as I'm concerned, they are dead to me.

[Spc1st]

Hmm, now that I think about it, you can't really "enhance MIDI" unless you are going to add more specs to it - XG, GS, and GM2 are sort of "enhancements" of (General) MIDI, but none of them have really taken off.

[PriZm]

This is extreme homosexual spectacular bullshit mark two special edition.

mind if I sig this ?

[Compyfox]

Hmm, now that I think about it, you can't really "enhance MIDI" unless you are going to add more specs to it - XG, GS, and GM2 are sort of "enhancements" of (General) MIDI, but none of them have really taken off.


To get back on the topic, you hit the nail on the spot. We were talking about "enhancing that control language", not "how to make WAVs out of MIDI".

MIDI has no sound(!), learn it finally and discuss it somewhere else please!


And I have to disagree with the last sentence, Spc1st. XG (yamaha) and GM are still used. It's only a point of view. GM is theoretically only 1 bank and 128 programs, while XG can theoretically be 128 banks * 128 programs (16384) - but... no hardware synth used that much so far. The only synth that uses over 400 presets atm (without additional patches/programs) is the Korg Legacy "Digital Edition". And this thing is software only.

[Spc1st]

Yeh, GM is definitely still fairly popular (NI Bandstand and EWQL Collosus come to mind as some of the higher-quality GM based sample players), but I don't see a lot of support for the newer GM2 format (at least in software, I guess - I'm not too knowledgable about hardware support). You are probably right about XG (I was thinking about the now somewhat discontinued softsynth series), though I don't know if any other manufactures use the spec outside of Yamaha.

[Compyfox]

Well what if we can say that GM2 is actually the "enhanced" GM MIDI standard. XG has some triggers and MIDI CC that GM doesn't use, GM2 is the "upgraded GM" system in terms of banks...

So you can say, that those formats are not dead. MIDI won't die that soon, as it is implemented in hardware, software (Instruments and Plugins).


"Bandstand" is a GM based sampleplayer, true that (it's sorted as if it was a GM standardised instrument), but EWQL Collossus sure isn't sorted in GM standard patchwise. Also... XG synths weren't software snyths only. Before the Motiv series came out, the XG Series was (and still is) the flagship of Yamaha. */me goes hugging his MU-15 and DB50XG Wavetable*

[zircon]

Actually, Colossus IS mapped to GM. At least, there is a bank you can load in it like that.

[TrueLugia121]

so there isn't a set possibility that this could be done then?

[Compyfox]

Well... as this thread showed, it was already done, however it's not standardised yet. And as long as it isn't, you can't use "enhanced MIDI" rather than what is already available.

[Zoola]

Actually, Colossus IS mapped to GM. At least, there is a bank you can load in it like that.
That has got to use a TON of ram. The whole set is what, 32 gigs? So what is 128 instruments, not including drumsets, going to be in terms of ram?

[suzumebachi]

This is extreme homosexual spectacular bullshit mark two special edition.

mind if I sig this ?

go for it.

also, i think even DFD colossus would be nigh impossible for general playback (if it truly is 32gb). lord knows how long it would take to render either.. :/

[TrueLugia121]

so, and i think this might involve CompyFox or someone with a good knowledge of remixing, on actual fact the whole process of enhancing Midi as you said Suzumebachi is just twice as complicated right?

[Compyfox]

Well we're not talking about sounds, but a control language. Sure enhancing would be a nice thing to do, having some more control here and there (or depth).

But... MIDI worked for over 20 years good and fine. Even with extensive sample packs, you still don't use every single function - not to mention that "SYS-EX" can be additionally used too - if you know how to do it (which only counts to cracks, and that means around 5-10% of the soundengineers).


I wouldn't necessarily say it's complicated to "use" enhanced MIDI - inventing it is another thing. Same counts to "for what do I really need the enhancements?". For normal stuff that we use everyday, there's no need for enhancements. At least in my opinion.