Home Studio Challenge

[Zoola]

Greetings, Remixing junkies. 8)

I have received what may be the best thing in my remixing career to date: A request from my father to make a studio out of an extra room for him and me. This is very fortunate, because:

A. I have an entire room to work with.

B. I have lots of mullah to work with.

This is where you guys (if you would like) help me out. In the past, I've been working on petty cash, just barely getting by buying things when they go on sale or relying on Christmas. Now I can get those expensive items all together, and pretty much make the studio I've always longed for.

What we want to do: Well, I want to make remixes :D This means a lot of different styles of course. We want to be able to record vocals, guitars, keyboards, synths, saxophones, other wind instruments, and maybe a grand piano.

Budget: Dad never told me how much he is willing to pay, which is actually a good thing. He usually buys the best of stuff, so I'm thinking around 15k - 20k.

The room: It's big, about 180 X 220 inch if it was square. I could pretty much fit what I want in there, unless it is one of those massive mixer boards (which I don't want anyways) Of course, since it is hardwood, some acoustic treatment might be in order.

The goods: With my limited knowledge (combined with Electronic Musician's tips) I came up with some parts I think would be good. I definitely want this to be PC based, for many obvious reasons. I configured a nice Alienware workstation for about 3.2k. It includes:
3.6 Xenon
2 gig of ram
2 250 gig hard drives
nvidia Quando 550
DVD burner
Liquid cooling
I was impressed with the rather low price considering the liquid cooling and the Xenon. There are still a couple of unknowns, like whether 2 3.2 processors would be better then 1 3.6. I also had the option of 3 or 4 gigs of ram, would that make a difference?

Other items I thought of:
Cubase SX3
FW-1082 FireWire Computer Audio Interface
Omnirax Force 12 Professional Workstation
Event Studio Precision 8 Powered Monitors
Shure SM57's
East West Colossus
Native Instruments Komplete 3
Some 49 key controller

Would all of that be satisfactory? I know I'm going to need more mics and a bunch of cables too. I already have a nice Fantom S form years ago, a QS6.0 from REALLY long ago, along with several items like guitars, basses, amps, and a mic or too. If there's anything you would suggest I change, please tell me; I really need an experienced eye! :wink:

[Yoozer]

What we want to do: Well, I want to make remixes :D This means a lot of different styles of course. We want to be able to record vocals, guitars, keyboards, synths, saxophones, other wind instruments, and maybe a grand piano.
Okay.


Budget: Dad never told me how much he is willing to pay, which is actually a good thing. He usually buys the best of stuff, so I'm thinking around 15k - 20k.

What? Jesus.

The room: It's big, about 180 X 220 inch if it was square. I could pretty much fit what I want in there, unless it is one of those massive mixer boards (which I don't want anyways) Of course, since it is hardwood, some acoustic treatment might be in order.
Some? It's going to be something that'll suck some investment depending on how serious you are. It means basstraps and high-frequency damping.

http://www.studiotips.com/ Read.

I configured a nice Alienware workstation
Stop. Dump that idea because you'll pay most for the brand itself and an ugly case you're not seeing anyway.nvidia Quando 550
No. You want to make music. Playing games is for something else. Get rid of that huge piece of power-sucking graphics card and invest your money more wisely.

like whether 2 3.2 processors would be better then 1 3.6. I also had the option of 3 or 4 gigs of ram, would that make a difference?
Not much and 2 would be enough to start with.

Remember, a better computer gives you a bigger e-penis but does not make you a better composer. You want to play games? Invest in an XBOX 360 for the guests, they love that shit.

Omnirax Force 12 Professional Workstation
How many hardware rack/module synths do you plan to buy? The only things there should be mic preamps otherwise.

See those empty spaces? If you're not going to fill 'm you don't need them.

Event Studio Precision 8 Powered Monitors
Shure SM57's

A Neumann wouldn't hurt either :). You're recording - it's a given that most pre-amplifiers found in mixers no matter what are not good. Invest in a few mic preamps, think something like Presonus, TL Audio, Focusrite, etc.

East West Colossus
Native Instruments Komplete 3
Some 49 key controller

See, this is what I don't get. You go for the full wazoo and then say "some 49 key controller".

Also, Colossus - you already have a Fantom. Don't get duplicates. Stylus RMX and Atmosphere would probably be more useful, too.
Why 49 keys? The money you'll save on dropping that stupid idea of a graphics card alone will give you room for 61 at least. Get yourself a CME UF-6 - anything with good keys should work. Don't be cheap on this because it'll be what you'll mainly play on.

Would all of that be satisfactory?
What do you have for the rest? Oh, nevermind.

I already have a nice Fantom S form years ago, a QS6.0 from REALLY long ago, along with several items like guitars, basses, amps, and a mic or two.

Use the Fantom as your controller or buy an extra knob box.

If there's anything you would suggest I change, please tell me; I really need an experienced eye! :wink:
Good choice on the monitors. Computer - reconsider. Expand that Tascam thing.

[zircon]

Ok.. a few things.

1. No Alienware. Build the computer yourself or get one from a company that specializes in audio. Preferably, build it yourself. Don't bother with the Xeon; a 3.4ghz P4 Prescott is just fine. The 2 250gb hard drives is OK but a better idea might be to have a 80-120gb drive that will house Windows and all music applications, and then use the bigger, and usually slower drives, to house your samples and recorded audio. You also don't need a good video card. Any $40 POS like an ATI Radeon 9200 will do the trick.

Liquid cooling? Dual processors? Don't bother. Research quiet power supplies and quiet fans/cooling systems (or if you're getting a prefab computer from say Sweetwater it won't even matter). With a single powerful P4 processor you should be just fine for just about all applications, even running dozens of VSTs. This should reduce the cost of your computer by at LEAST $1000. Then, if you desperately want more power, you can put together 2 or 3 cheap computers with good processors, small HDs, 1gb RAM each, and then use those if you need to distribute processing power via MIDI Over Lan or FXTeleport. No need to go nuts all in one computer.

2. Pick up a pair of nice headphones too in the $100-$200 range. Sennheiser, Sony, AKG, whatever. Always good to have a secondary reference source.

3. Get a full length controller. If you are getting one of those ridiculously expensive desks, why not get a good controller too?

4. Acoustic treatment for the room. It might be worth it to have an expert come in and do this for you, but even the best monitors and the best rig is totally useless unless the room is properly treated.

5. Shure SM57s are great but you may want to look around if you're SERIOUS about recording, since these are technically "budget" misc. You might be able to find more instrument-specific ones that will do the job better.

6. Don't bother with Colossus. Komplete 3 has TONS of stuff. I would then look at a product like NI Bandstand or Sonic Reality Sampletank 2 XL if you want 'workstation' sounds. Between these things AND your two keyboards you should be fine.

7. Consider some mastering plugins. Waves Rennaisance is not a bad deal ($450 for the package) but don't get anything above that in the Waves line. PSP Audioware makes some great stuff as well, as does Sonalkis.

Those are just some start points. Don't spend your money until you do THOROUGH research!!

[Compyfox]

A couple of hints from my side:

- To have the best acoustics, don't use the room's length, but width. This way your sonic doesn't clutter that much and you have less frequency problems. Good for mixing/engineering

As example:

YES:
___---________---___
| SETUP |
| |
| |
| |
----D---------------

The sparings up top are windows, D stands for door


A definite NO:
________
|setup |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| D
| |
________


- On speakers I'd go with Genelec Active Nearfield Monitors. They're in the midrange in terms of price, they're very balanced and you can upgrade easily to 5.1 if you should ever work with that setup. It's up to you if you want to use a Stereo only system, or a 2.1 (stereo + subwoofer) system.

- Monitors on the same height of the ears (important for mixing and no altered sound)


- Try to build up your studio in an efficient way. Nothing is more nagging than having a slowed down and uncomfortable workflow (in this case... keyboard near the screens, etc).

- Speaking of screens, try to get LCDs. Best if 2. Trust me, your workflow in Cubase is way better this way. You also don't have any problems with recording noise (radiations). Especially good for guitars (E-Guitars).


- Ah yeah... if you want to do vocal or acoustic recordings (violin, guitar, etc) recordings, a good preamp and a large membran microphone is essential.


The rest was pretty much mentioned already.

[OverCoat]

I gotta third the "Alienware sucks" statement. Even Gateway probably makes a similarly powerful computer for $2000 less than what they're asking. Actually my mom just got a very powerful Gateway for surprisingly cheap. Of course you should still make your own tower anyway if you could since it might be cheaper. I'm not that smart though so I buy premade ones :P

Another tip: You might wanna stay away from Pentium processors with hyperthreading. Apparently it causes problems in some software. I think develop

That acousic treatment bit is a rather large project. Unless you or your dad are carpenters though I would hire a professional :P.

Edit: Compyfox is spot on with the LCD comment. CRT monitors generate a lot of noise.

[zircon]

Another tip: You might wanna stay away from Pentium processors with hyperthreading. Apparently it causes problems in some software. I think develop

No, it's fine. Most P4s come with HT now. You can always turn it off so it's not an issue.

[SnappleMan]

Hmmm, 15k-20k is not really enough to build a full studio, but you can get away with a great amateur home setup.

It doesnt seem like you're looking to use a real drumset, so the time, money and frustration that goes into constructing a drum room and properly setting up a mic rig for it will not be an issue.

You've got some good things on there, but what I'd recommend to you is to scratch Colossus, and instead stay with Komplete 3 and buy Drumkit From Hell Superior. I also recommend you got with as much ram as your machine can handle.

And yeah, like stated above, go with a full 88 key controller, don't settle for less.

Judging from your post, you seem to be putting most of your energy in the PC that you're gonna get with this, that's bad. You need to focus more on the way you're going to arrange everything in the room and determining what hardware will be absolutely necessary. Don't clutter the place up with useless crap you'll never need, and the same goes for the PC.

There's no need to have an insane gaming PC to work on music. All you need is a decent enough video card, a ton of ram, good storage and LCDs. The main idea here is to create an environment where you can work smoothly and efficiently.

And if you're going to work with acoustic recordings, you'll need to take alot of care in preparing a good area to record in. If the room is big, consider building specific "chambers" where you can record an acoustic guitar or vox without having to worry about room ambiance and other unwanted noise.

[Zoola]

Before I say anything, I thank thee for all your prompt replies.
I'm seeing some general themes here.

1. Alienware is bad.
I personally own an alienware from several years ago when they weren't big. I am still pleased with the performance from it. Regardless, I will take all of your advice and build my own (I have some experience). I'll take zirc's advice and find some quiet fans, and I'll go with a P4. One thing to note, though, is that I plan to do some video editing on this system as well. Will a P4 with a bunch of ram be fine for that as well?

2. Colossus is bad.
I was looking for some software for the setup, and ran across Colossus. I listened to the audio demos, and was impressed. I guess it would be ok to go with something like Sampletank 2 XL instead, though I don't see why pick it instead of Colossus. I'll get some demos for it.

3. 49 keys is bad.
This one I admitidly agree with. My original plans were in a much smaller room, and I wouldn't be able to fit a large controller in there. I like that CME UF-6 a lot, that could be it.

Some of the more secluded responses:

Compy:
Thanks for the diagram; Fortunately for me, I already had my idea set up like that. Lets see... oooh. No offence, but those monitors are as ugly as hell. Do they really sound that great, better then the event studios? I already plan to have 2 lcds, preferably 19 inch or bigger. And based on all the sayings, a preamp is necessary, so I'm gonna do some more research.

Zircon:
I like your advice with the extra computers; I wont splurge yet, but I'll keep that in mind. And I have yet to look around for mics, I'll do that soon. Forgive my ignorance, but mastering plugins? What are they supposed to do? And of course, research first.

Yoozer:
Thanks for the link. That's a good site, but I think I'm going to hire a professional to do the acoustics. I really like that desk, but I do see what you mean about not using all the rack space. I am thinking about a rack case, so that might be a good idea. It looks like there are lots of Neumann mics. Do you happen to know a nice site that can help me choose? And with expand the tascam, do you mean get a higher end model? I don't need any more inputs then 8. I don't plan on recording drumkits or full orchestras.

[Compyfox]

Hmmm, 15k-20k is not really enough to build a full studio, but you can get away with a great amateur home setup.

For that money, (20k) I could build a full one in the right room, as I have most of my equipment already.


Zoola:
Well the Genelec are pretty good active monitors. Of course it's not the only branch, but one of the most well known. In the end, your ears have to work with the speakers. So I'd listen though a bunch of them for sure (that's why I still want Alesis Monitor 1 Mk II, then again, comapred to the Genelec, they're passive monitors, and the frequency rance is more even).

Ah yeah... difference between active/passive:
Active - Amp already included in the speaker system
Passive - Amp not yet included in the speaker system


In terms of the room, congrats that you thought of that already for yourself. You did a good step towards better room acoustics without knowing some basic informations at that time. ;)

Keep up the good work, and good luck with your studio.

[SnappleMan]

For that money, (20k) I could build a full one in the right room, as I have most of my equipment already.


Well, I could have a studio for free if I already have one :)

The point is that I don't think he has a $65,000 grand piano in his house. What I mean is that 20K while being a good sum of money, can be easily wasted on things you don't really need.

Doing research is a very good way of finding out what you really need, and that way you might even realise that you won't need to spend all that money.

[po!]

Event Studio Precision 8 Powered Monitors
Shure SM57's

A Neumann wouldn't hurt either :). You're recording - it's a given that most pre-amplifiers found in mixers no matter what are not good. Invest in a few mic preamps, think something like Presonus, TL Audio, Focusrite, etc.


i second the preamp suggestion. if you're serious about recording then it'll be very worthwhile to invest in a good preamp

something like this for example

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/search/detail/base_pid/180210/

or

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/search/detail/base_pid/188218/

btw i'm not really recommending these, i don't know enough about preamps to be recommending anything

but i do plan on getting the Twintrak when i have enough money.. it's probably the best bang for the buck value in that price range

[the_nihilist]

The best place to ask this is not OCR.

I recommend the gearslutz forums, as they have many, many times more experience in stuff like this.

http://www.gearslutz.com

[Compyfox]

I recommend the gearslutz forums, as they have many, many times more experience in stuff like this.

Uh... okay. :roll:

[Yoozer]

I recommend the gearslutz forums, as they have many, many times more experience in stuff like this.

Uh... okay. :roll:

I think he's correct; but only in the sense that more people visit there and that while Remixing is just a part of OCR, GS has its complete forum dedicated to it.

Simply a matter of having a bigger sample population (sample as in statistics) and less mercy for "lol d00d u should use an audigy and warez ur plugins". Plus the mods can show actual experience there - most here only have a studio in name but don't rent it out or have a separate building for the business.

[myf]

this thread makes me a sad panda :cry:

[Splunkle]

Well, I have little knowledge on the matter, but I hae been told that you can never have to many SM-57s, and with my little experience I am inclined to agree. You will be amazed at how fast you use 'em, particularly when micing up an entire band. Of course, that only matters if you need lots of instruments miked up at once. If you are only going to have one or two plugged in at once, it would probably be better to get fewer, more specialised mics. SM57s are all rounders: you can record just about anything with them, but they aren't OMG WOW at everything.

[the_nihilist]

I recommend the gearslutz forums, as they have many, many times more experience in stuff like this.

Uh... okay. :roll:

I think he's correct; but only in the sense that more people visit there and that while Remixing is just a part of OCR, GS has its complete forum dedicated to it.

Simply a matter of having a bigger sample population (sample as in statistics) and less mercy for "lol d00d u should use an audigy and warez ur plugins". Plus the mods can show actual experience there - most here only have a studio in name but don't rent it out or have a separate building for the business.

Alot of gearslutz members are studio owners or recording engineers. They also have guest recording engineers come on and answer questions for a month -- people who have worked on multi-platinum selling albums. These people are professionals, and can offer advice that the amateur and hobbyist focused OCR would likely not be able to cover nearly as well. If you're going to spend $15k on a studio, those guys would be the ones to ask.

[realpolitik]

Well the Genelec are pretty good active monitors. Of course it's not the only branch, but one of the most well known. In the end, your ears have to work with the speakers. So I'd listen though a bunch of them for sure (that's why I still want Alesis Monitor 1 Mk II, then again, comapred to the Genelec, they're passive monitors, and the frequency rance is more even).


More like the Mackie HR284 monitors (http://www.zzounds.com/item--MACHR824) The frequency response it awesomely flat, if not a little pricey :)

[SnappleMan]

Also, if you're planning to record grand piano, you'll (at the extreme least) need a very good stereo overhead mic.

[Zoola]

Alright, after that long break, I'm back. I was actually cleaning out the entire room for the studio (it used to be my bedroom). I have pics!

-----------------------------------------------------

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/Zoola/IMG_4299.jpg
Here is the view when you first enter the room. My dad and I dragged an old area rug in there to help dampen the sound. (It really helps too, cuts the reverb in half; still way too much, though.) That desk is an old one we are gonna get rid of.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/Zoola/IMG_4300.jpg
This shows the door I was standing in. I believe we are gonna put the desk setup against that wall with the crazy design.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/Zoola/IMG_4302.jpg
A view from the opposite corner. Those doors are the closet, the random junk on the side are things that are gonna stay in the studio.

----------------------------------------------------

I'm going to try to get a blueprint / block diagram of our ideas in the studio, but that's pretty much it for now.

[Argitoth]

TIPS
No matter how much money you have, I can't stress this enough:
1. Save as much money as possible any way you can.
2. Don't get what you don't need.

Now, when I tell you to save money I don't mean going and buying budget crap, rather buy the good stuff for as little money as possible. For example, if you spend more than $1300 on NI Komplete 3, you've spent too much. You could even buy NI Komplet 2 and pay to upgrade to 3 and save money. Right now on Ebay, NI Komplete 3 is less than $1,200.

You do not need a liquid cooling system. This Zalman (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835118113) would definitely be sufficient. There's even a bigger version. I've had a friend wake up one morning to find his watercooler broke, spilled and fried some of his computer parts.

HARDDRIVES
You absolutely should get two 250 gig harddrives and distribute large sound libraries between the two for DFD (Direct from Disk) streaming. This tip was given to me at NorthernSounds forum. If you want, you could even have duplicates of all the libraries on each harddrive. I heard from NorthernSounds forum that Hitachi (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822145087) was the fastest (and best choice) 7200RPM 250gig harddrives.

CPU
For a CPU, why hasn't AMD Dual Core been mentioned? Dual Core processors were created to handle lots of different programs at once (for example, many VSTs). Here's this: AMD 939 Dual Core (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103546))

RAM
As for RAM, 2 gigs is really the minimum. With this budget, 4 is more like it, maybe two of these: Patriot 2x1GB RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820220040). With such a budget, and with the amount of harddrive space, RAM, and CPU I am suggesting, you should get some huge libraries. If not, go with 2 gigs of ram.

HOST (Cubase SX)
I would say DEFINITELY get Cubase SX, don't spend more than $500. Cubase SX is awesome for a combination of lots of audio recordings and midi. The Customizeable options for Cubase is immense, my favorite feature: being able to erase all hotkeys and assing them to whatever I want. You can even create macros (a string of hotkey commands) and theres a hotkey for ANYTHING.

MIDI CONTROL
If you're thinking about a midi keyboard, definitely think about the CME Line (http://www.cme-pro.com/product.html). It's pure awesome and the price is amazing. 49, 61, 76, 88 keys. lots of features like aftertouch.

[Tyler Heath]

arg, do you actually know anything about setting up a studio?

and if so, since when?

[OverCoat]

and if so, since when?

His entire post was only about the computer aspect.

[Compyfox]

Argitoth never ceases to amaze me... Nope... he sure doesn't.

[Zoola]

Anyways... I got blueprints!
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/Zoola/blueprint1.png
I know, not very blue, but it shows the general layout of the room (it was made with Solid edge and photoshop). It shows where we want to set up and where things will go. There are windows on the top half of the room.
Any weird things you see with this print?

[Argitoth]

These people are professionals, and can offer advice that the amateur and hobbyist focused OCR would likely not be able to cover nearly as well.
And vice versa. I bet you anything they won't help him find good prices on software.

CHIZAM! NI Komplete for $1150: on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/NATIVE-INSTRUMENTS-KOMPLETE-3-NEW-Free-Ship_W0QQitemZ7377995350QQcategoryZ41786QQcmdZView Item)

[Compyfox]

The closet might give you an unwanted bass boost due to the "empty room". I'd put some bass traps in the corners of the room and maybe even "in" the closed to prevent that. What's your opinion on that, yoozer?

Also there's foam behind the speakers, and to the right side of them. But the door to the bathroom doesn't have that. Dunno... wouldn't that change the sound of it?

Else... well... you gotta play around with your room, try to find the places were you have trouble with frequencies flattering, etc. But a bass track for the "holes" should be some great help.

[speculative]

CPU
For a CPU, why hasn't AMD Dual Core been mentioned? Dual Core processors were created to handle lots of different programs at once (for example, many VSTs). Here's this: AMD 939 Dual Core (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103546))


For $500 you get get a 2.2GHz dual chip, or for $200 less you could get the 1.8GHz A64 3800+, which would be plenty of power for you. Until Intel gets their new architecture out the door, AMD Dual-core rules the day for now. If you check out the NI Komplete recommended system though, they only list a 1.6Ghz Athlon XP, which can probably be had used for $20. So, you could save a lot of $ on a computer depending on what you need it to do. Take a look at the requirements/recommendations of the software you plan to buy.

[zircon]

I'm skeptical of dual core processors for audio stuff, given that some manufacturers like Native Instruments specifically say you shouldn't use hyperthreading (which is essentially the same as dual core, except it's a virtual processor core).

[speculative]

I'm skeptical of dual core processors for audio stuff, given that some manufacturers like Native Instruments specifically say you shouldn't use hyperthreading (which is essentially the same as dual core, except it's a virtual processor core).

True! Like mentioned - you should always check the requirements of the specific hardware you plan to run.

I plan to use FL and a few cheap VST plug-in instruments, so I realized I really didn't need to upgrade just yet from my current configuration. People are having great luck with the X2 though in many things: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=114774&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Considering AMD is going to release quad-core technology, that will either drive the price of X2's down, or else X2's might be lost in the mix (so to speak ;) )

[Argitoth]

I'm skeptical of dual core processors for audio stuff, given that some manufacturers like Native Instruments specifically say you shouldn't use hyperthreading (which is essentially the same as dual core, except it's a virtual processor core).

True! Like mentioned - you should always check the requirements of the specific hardware you plan to run.

I wouldn't worry. I'm sure I saw a thread on KVR with a guy saying his dual core was awesome. Hyperthreading is not the same as dual core after all. And what on earth do you mean by virtual? It has an extra L2 cache, that's not virtual!

[zircon]

I wouldn't worry. I'm sure I saw a thread on KVR with a guy saying his dual core was awesome. Hyperthreading is not the same as dual core after all. And what on earth do you mean by virtual? It has an extra L2 cache, that's not virtual!

Yes, "a guy on KVR" saying something is awesome is clearly proof of something. Native Instruments (among other developers) specifically says hyperthreading causes problems in their sampling line, including Kontakt/Kompakt players.

Let me explain something briefly. The speed advantage of hyperthreading, dual core, and dual processors comes from the processing of multiple "threads" at the same time. Hyperthreading does this by creating a 'virtual' second processor so that multiple threads to be handled. Dual core processors are like dual processors, except you just don't have two physical, separate chips; the dual 'cores' are on one chip. Thus, any application that is not compatible with hyperthreading (because of incompatibility with multiple thread processing) will have the same problems with dual core and dual processors.

[Argitoth]

Hot Dang, Zircon. Doesn't that show a lack of competence in a company to not support hyperthreading? Maybe some companies are in the process of making the move.

Edit: Oh yeah I remember. I read that this guy upgraded to dual core AMD and he said his synths used to eat up 80% of cpu, but with the same project it's now 20%. Maybe we should all build two computers. One with dual core to run synths and one computer designed for large libraries.

[zircon]

You don't need a ridiculous computer to make good music. I was just visiting a good friend of mine (a songwriter + composer) that uses a simple iMac G5 with Garageband 2. He's brilliant.

[Argitoth]

You don't need a ridiculous computer to make good music.
I need a ridiculous computer to make ridiculous music. I want people to say, "HAY! That music is ridiculous!" :o

So Zircon, for $500 what CPU do you suggest? What's the best CPU out there for audio that doesn't go over $500?

[OverCoat]

I guess noone has anything to say about the actual room. Yeah, forget the fuckin' room, let's focus on the COMPUTER because obviously that's the most important part :roll:

That's ok, there are books you can get that probably give you better expertise.

[zircon]

Just the CPU? Any old pentium 4 will get the job done. I always go for one step below the newest tech, since the newest stuff is typically buggy and overpriced. For instance, when 3.6ghz processors were hot, I picked a 3ghz processor for about $200. 3.2-3.6ghz processors were much more expensive. Why blow the extra cash?

[Argitoth]

Yeah, forget the fuckin' room, let's focus on the COMPUTER because obviously that's the most important part.

1. This is OCR, what do you expect?
2. The computer *is* the most important part of doing music when you're composing ON A COMPUTERRRRR... :roll:

[OverCoat]

2. The computer *is* the most important part of doing music if it's done ON A COMPUTERRRRR... :roll:

The computer is shit if the room and recording equipment sucks. It's just there to put all the tracks together and maybe use some supplemental sampling/synthesis.

[Zoola]

2. The computer *is* the most important part of doing music if it's done ON A COMPUTERRRRR... :roll:

The computer is shit if the room and recording equipment sucks. It's just there to put all the tracks together and maybe use some supplemental sampling/synthesis.
Good point. I'm looking for more on the room side, cause I simply don't have much experience in it. I understand the computer well enough; Zircon gave me some good pointers I will definitely consider.
Tonight I am going to draw out a block diagram representing how the whole shabang will hook up. I see if I can post it tomorrow. Should be fun.

P.S. Thanks, compy, for your expertise on the foam. I'm going to look into the bass traps and covering up that bathroom. One thing; I don't understand the "empty room" thing you speak of. Is this the sound entering the closet through the door and being reflected? Should I put foam in there too? Also, which is better, cones or those diamond things?

Edit: I do want to do some video editing. I have a 3.0 ghz P4 "gaming" computer that I have been using for audio, video and games for the past couple years now, and it hold up pretty well with premiere. Also, I've had hyper-threading on and no problems with kompakt have occurred. Seeing the trend, though, a PC with a decent P4 and a lot of ram will be perfect for what I need.

[Compyfox]

Well I dun know nothing about sonic foam, but yoozer might help you on there. I mentionted the closed as "empty room" and "possible bass box" in this cause, cause chances are that the sound that comes from the other side of the room, will be reflected in that empty closed and then thrown back at you with a "bass boost".

BTW: Bass-traps are easy to make.
If you have some old small cabinets (those you have at the side of the best), simply stuff a pillar in it and et voila... best and cheapest bass trap you can get.

Another thing that might be interesting... Has the closet any light in it? Can somebody stand in there and do some vocal/guitar recordings? If so... and this room is used as "dedicated studio" now, why not stuff some foam/blankets/cutain onto the doors/walls of this small "extra room". Then you have an extra vocal booth too and don't have to mess with the room acoustics to get some "clean recordings" in there.

Else you can get some partitions (moveable walls) to build a "smaller area" within the room and record in there. The purpose is simple: you reduce the roomsize around the microphone and you can block humming/hissing from your PC a bit.


Depends on you, you have lots of possibilities. Stuff that I don't have.

[Zoola]

Hmm, that closet thing sounds like a good idea. I don't think I can put up partitions; the room is too tall. I definitely think it will be possible to curtain off the closet, though. Thanks for your help.

[Compyfox]

Can you please give me some measures and maybe some photos on the closet, please? I wanna get to know how big this thing actually is to think about what you can possibly do out of it.

[Yoozer]

Well I dun know nothing about sonic foam, but yoozer might help you on there
Did I already mention http://forum.studiotips.com/ and http://www.studiotips.com/ ? Anyway, that's where you need to look.

There are several ways to handle this:

- Do nothing
This will allow you to use the room for other purposes if you ever move out. It's not ideal though.

- Treat as much as you can
This means setting up basstraps and damping at the critical places. This probably would be the best if you don't have a house of your own.

- Go bananas (B-A-N-A-N-A-S)
Which gives you a room-in-a-room and costs about $15K even if you do it yourself.

The people there are very experienced with the whole science behind it, but you might end up with a room that gets a completely fixed purpose - it'll be a studio only. It costs a lot to bring it back into the old state again.

Before posting there; It's not OCR at all. You are expected to do your homework as extensively as possible first. Educate yourself thoroughly on the matter, search as much as possible of what you do not understand. I'm not trying to discourage you but they take all of it very seriously so you'll have to play along. I've browsed through some of the material there and I wouldn't even feel comfortable with registering to post stuff (mainly because I'm not able to put any improvements through).

Start with the basics. You want a room with a flat response and a reduced reverb time for all frequencies. The monitor speakers you have are going to stand free - on a distance of the wall. There should be treatment everywhere the sound can reflect directly; damp the first two reflections and you've lost a lot of energy already.

Sound has a low-frequency and a high-frequency component; the highs can be damped with foams which disperse and diffuse. The lows need basstraps - essentially a membrane that acts as a buffer for the low-frequency waves.

Rectangular corners of the room are the spots you should look at, as they cause most of the problems. Putting basstraps there would solve a lot of issues already; it means you have to do less effort on the walls themselves.

There's also the issue of room "modes" - the distance between opposing walls. That is the wavelength of a certain frequency and because waves can bounce back and forth that frequency will show up as a peak. This phenomenon is essentially resonance and it should be solved with a 'tuned' bass trap; a regular one will not suppress that particular frequency.

Those are the basic things I can think of... You should keep these in mind and it depends on your budget and the will of the home owner to alter the room :). You can buy some really nice Auralex stuff, but if you can make it yourself like the basstraps, you'll save yourself some money, have a better performance, and you'll be able to blend it with the current looks of the room.

[Zoola]

I just finished an updated equipment list.
Here. (http://www.myfilehut.com/userfiles/33604/Equipment%20List.xls)
Made a nice spreadsheet for it.

[Argitoth]

Did you ever take into account the learning curve with all that software?

There will be a huge learning curve for all the NI stuff. Matter of fact, if you weren't going to buy NI Komplete you would probably want to buy software synths one at a slow enough rate for you to get some kind of idea how each one works.

I think it will be a huge mistake if you blindly commit your money to NI Komplete, there are many many software synthesizers that can compete with NI stuff. For example, what about YellowTools Independence instead of NI Kontakt? What about Zebra instead of Absynth? Tassman instead of Reaktor? Even though you could save money buying NI komplete in one shot, I think you will have a much bigger range of awesome synths if you buy from other companies one or two at a time all the while researching each one and getting exactly what you need and NOT buying NI komplete to get a buncha stuff you may not even like, may not want, or may not need.

But then again, NI komplete is not just synthesizers. Battery IMO is the best drum sampler, intakt is very good beat slice editor, but then Stylus RMX has features intakt will never have. I'm not sure if Stylus can edit individual slices like intakt can though.

[zircon]

Argitoth.. once again, you don't own ANY of the stuff you listed so I don't see how you can be advising Zoola on any of it.

NI Komplete is an amazing library of products. There's no debate about it, it's the best deal around today in the music software world. 25gb+ of samples, arguably the most powerful instrument sampler on the market (as well as 3 other samplers), high-quality synths, and THE most versatile musical program on earth, Reaktor. You can't go wrong.

[Tyler Heath]

to argitoth:

it could be that he's researched this more thoroughly than you give him credit for.

edit: to argitoth again:

it could also be that you don't know what you're talking about.

correct me if I'm wrong, though.

however, from what zirc has said (and from the concurring opinions I've read), komplete is an excellent choice.

[Zoola]

Did you ever take into account the learning curve with all that software?

There will be a huge learning curve for all the NI stuff. Matter of fact, if you weren't going to buy NI Komplete you would probably want to buy software synths one at a slow enough rate for you to get some kind of idea how each one works.

I think it will be a huge mistake if you blindly commit your money to NI Komplete, there are many many software synthesizers that can compete with NI stuff. For example, what about YellowTools Independence instead of NI Kontakt? What about Zebra instead of Absynth? Tassman instead of Reaktor? Even though you could save money buying NI komplete in one shot, I think you will have a much bigger range of awesome synths if you buy from other companies one or two at a time all the while researching each one and getting exactly what you need and NOT buying NI komplete to get a buncha stuff you may not even like, may not want, or may not need.

But then again, NI komplete is not just synthesizers. Battery IMO is the best drum sampler, intakt is very good beat slice editor, but then Stylus RMX has features intakt will never have. I'm not sure if Stylus can edit individual slices like intakt can though.
Why? Why? What if I like NI? You are not making any compelling arguments against it. I've messed with a lot of their stuff and I found it in intuitive and powerful. Besides, the core features I want (komtakt, reaktor, FM7, intakt) would cost nearly the same as komplete if bought separately, so why bother? I like their products. Besides, how do you know so much about all of these? Did you buy NI Komplete?
I understand the learning that comes with all of this. I am setting up a studio; learning is half the job.

EDIT: Triple whammy. Well said, Zirc. I did do my research (or so I think...) :lol:

[OverCoat]

[Zoola]

just thought I should note that the thread title is still misspelled and that bugs me :(

"challenge" :lol:

[Argitoth]

you don't own ANY of the stuff you listed
I've researched each thing I've listed more or less and I do own Absynth, soon Absynth 3 so you can't say I don't own any.

arguably the most powerful instrument sampler on the market (as well as 3 other samplers)
There are very few products out there that compete with kontakt, and 3 others might be the only others. HAlion, Gigastudio, Independence. That's 3 right there. That's the only other 3 I know of.

I've messed with a lot of their stuff and I found it in intuitive and powerful. I like their products.
Besides, how do you know so much about all of these? Did you buy NI Komplete?
Zoola, believe it or not you sound exactly like me before I came to realize NI Komplete isn't "all that" (which is what I realized after having researched a lot of what other companies have to offer). Anyway, you haven't bought NI Komplete either. I guess I can't make such a good arguement, I want NI komplete just as much as you do. I'm just trying to make you aware there's a lot of great companies other than Native Instruments you might want to look into eventually.

[Zoola]

Zoola, believe it or not you sound exactly like me
OH THE HORROR!
..and.... yet again, no backing up of your statements. Show me how other programs are better / cheaper.

EDIT: heheh, sig'd.

[Compyfox]

Argitoth sounds to me like somebody who reads a book cover, knows everything about the backgrounds after that and then he "needs" to act like a preacher on the streets trying to convert us all.

Sad thing on it... there's nothing funny about it unfortunately.

[Tyler Heath]

holy crap, zoola

I think arg just tried to reason with you

only instead he ended up insulting you

also, arg, why would you try to talk someone out of something you want as well? that's just bad business.

however, I have tarried too long in this thread without contributing any more than arg, so I'll take my leave now.

[Zoola]

Compy:
The closet is a big trapazoidal space:
45 inches deep
55 inches wide at shortest
130 inches wide at widest
100 inches

Dunno what that does for you.

[Compyfox]

So much for hijacking the thread, Argi...
*applauds*

[zircon]

Not going to bother responding to Argitoth point-by-point, but I will say this; Kontakt 2 (which essentially costs $100 with Komplete 3) will get you the most bang for your buck out of any sampler today. First of all, it can import virtually any format known to man. Gigastudio cannot, Independence cannot, VSampler cannot, Mach5 cannot, and sadly (as Compy will tell you), Halion cannot. Kontakt 2 is the only thing that opens libraries locked into the Kontakt/Kompakt player, which would be a great majority of them since that's all people release now. In addition, K2 comes with the biggest library of samples right out of the box. Gigastudio 3 costs more than K2, yet it comes with less material, in comparison.

K2 runs as a plugin - VST, AU, RTAS, DXI. Or it can run as standalone with up to 64 channels. GS3 doesn't do that. Finally, K2 has a scripting engine which is unique and proprietary. NOTHING else matches the things you can do with it, and already users have created brilliant free scripts to greatly enhance the realism of various samples.

[Zoola]

Not going to bother responding to Argitoth point-by-point, but I will say this; Kontakt 2 (which essentially costs $100 with Komplete 3) will get you the most bang for your buck out of any sampler today. First of all, it can import virtually any format known to man. Gigastudio cannot, Independence cannot, VSampler cannot, Mach5 cannot, and sadly (as Compy will tell you), Halion cannot. Kontakt 2 is the only thing that opens libraries locked into the Kontakt/Kompakt player, which would be a great majority of them since that's all people release now. In addition, K2 comes with the biggest library of samples right out of the box. Gigastudio 3 costs more than K2, yet it comes with less material, in comparison.

K2 runs as a plugin - VST, AU, RTAS, DXI. Or it can run as standalone with up to 64 channels. GS3 doesn't do that. Finally, K2 has a scripting engine which is unique and proprietary. NOTHING else matches the things you can do with it, and already users have created brilliant free scripts to greatly enhance the realism of various samples.
I've read all that...
...and I can't wait to work with it. Komtakt looks amazing in every aspect; I know I will enjoy it. I have EWQLSO Silver and have messed with the limited Kompakt, and even then I was impressed with the simple clean interface and the stability of the program. Thank you, NI!

[SnappleMan]

I've used most of the things that come included with Komplete, and I gotta agree with zircon on this one. It's one of the best values you could get today. It can almost completely defeat the need for anythig else, depending on what you do.

[Zoola]

Alright, finally got around to buying some stuff! Here (http://mzp.50webs.com/Equipment_Listocr.xls) is an updated list in Excel format, and for you who don't have it, here (http://mzp.50webs.com/Equipment.html) it is in html. It got a little messed up from the conversion (colors don't work right) but it is fine.

Some things to note are the great deal I got for buying the computer with the firepod and Komplete 3 all together, as well as my dad being crazy and ordering 2 24 inch (!) LCD monitors.

We can only hope this stays on topic this time.

[Malcos]

Now that's what I call a studio. 2 24" monitors? Damn! I'm sure you'll have lots of fun!

[Argitoth]

If music is going to be a career you could easily add sound design as a service by buying sound libraries and remote recording equipment to record stuff outside your studio. It's what I plan on doing. Of course, you would have to practice sound design.

[Theowne]

Izotope, awesome. I love Izotope.

[Zoola]

More updates / pics:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/Zoola/IMG_4398.jpg
The foam came in! We haven't finished putting it up yet, so that will come later.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/Zoola/IMG_4406.jpg
My current library. All that is new is Stormdrum, my new favorite toy.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/Zoola/IMG_4397.jpg
That is my dad. He is 6'4".

'Nuff said.

And to top it off...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/Zoola/IMG_4405.jpg
These are the sweetest sounding speakers I have ever heard. And they arent even in a decent position!

Also, the controller keyboard came in, but I didn't get any decent pics.
That leaves the desk and computer to come in, which will be another week or two. Then we will get to buying the rest of the software and mics.
Until then...!

[SnappleMan]

Awesome shit dude! :)

If I can make somewhat decent music on my crappy ass setup, you'll be ripping out assholes once you get this studio together.

[Compyfox]

May I ask how much you paid for the foam and where you got it from(if it's an internet shop)? I wanna read myself a bit into street prices and stuff.

Thanks in advance

[Zoola]

Awesome shit dude! :)

If I can make somewhat decent music on my crappy ass setup, you'll be ripping out assholes once you get this studio together.
Hey, it's about talent, man. It'll be a while. :)

Compy:
I got my foam off of http://foambymail.com/. I think we paid somewhere around 900 us dollars at about 1.20 cents a square foot for the brown 3 inch pyramid foam. (we paid more to have it brown).

[Zoola]

SUCCESS!
The main parts of the studio is completed! The desk, computer, firepod and komplete all came in and my father and I spent the last couple days setting it up. The desk was quite a feat to construct, but it is done. The foam has been all put up, and looks (and sounds) great.
So without further adu...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/Zoola/IMG_4419.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/Zoola/IMG_4420.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/Zoola/IMG_4426.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/Zoola/IMG_4424.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/Zoola/IMG_4422.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/Zoola/IMG_4423.jpg

It's obviously pretty dirty (packaging materials everywhere!) but that's the main construction. Thank you to everyone who has helped me in choosing the right equipment for me; I know this wouldn't be nearly as cool if I had no advice. And as always, further criticism on the arrangement of products and what not is still open.
Toodles, and thanks again.

[Skrypnyk]

Zoola, will your parents adopt me?

That looks like a pretty sweeeeet studio. Can't really add on to what people have said here.

I will say however, we should do a Komplete 3 remix collab or something, cause....that's like the only thing we have in commen appearently =o

2 24" LCDs.....sweet jesus....

[Yoozer]

That is indeed a very very sweet setup. Congrats :).


(also, what model Argosy is that? In their list I only saw stuff that accomodated for 2 monitors and a computer keyboard, but not for that CME).

[myf]

i drool.

[Zoola]

That is indeed a very very sweet setup. Congrats :).


(also, what model Argosy is that? In their list I only saw stuff that accomodated for 2 monitors and a computer keyboard, but not for that CME).
It's a 90v. It also has the add-on for mahogany side panels and monitor shelves.

[Synth]

Very very nice setup.



Your dad is hot.

[IC]

This is sweet. I'm very happy for you, Z! :D